University or College?

[Hades.]

I was having a conversation with my date about my plans for the future pertaining to the education area. I told him that I was planning to start at a community college with the major I want (Psychology) and, of course, fill in some generals on the side as well if possible. Once I get transferred, I wanted to continue with the major and add certain things on the side (there's a lot of things I'd like to accomplish to keep my options open for jobs.)

He told me that I shouldn't go to a community college because it was basically a waste of time. That once I got transferred, I'd have to retake a lot of my classes because going to a community college would be like taking AP classes at high school, so that I shouldn't waste my time, and, of course, included that I should go where he goes to college but it's too far away from where I live so my next best option would be the University College of Colorado Springs.

Then I met this guy one weekend before Halloween at a party we were having in his home. Everybody had left momentarily so we had a conversation and he asked me about college, so I told him about my plans and added what my date had told me. He said that only if I took the ones with a certain... um... credit point or something? I forgot what was that he exactly said, but only if I didn't take classes with those would going to a community college be a waste of time.

So I want your guy's opinion on this matter. It's kind of crucial and I want to enlighten myself on my options and possibilities as I don't have much time left. Of course, I need to throw it out there, I still need to take my ACT and SAT, but I will take that in due time if going to university instead of community college is the best bet.

[Ragaar31]

College is bullshit.

You pay tons of money, you get out of college, and guess what? No fucking jobs. I hate to be a downer, but honestly its hard for me to get excited about school when I know it's almost impossible to get a job.

You can get the same education at a community college that you get at an ivy league school. But that too, doesn't matter. You pay for the name of the college you want on your resume. Community college looks worse than a university, even though you learn the same shit.

If I had to say which one to choose, I would say, pick the one nearest your friends and family (unless you are looking to escape them). That's what's most important to me, being close to loved ones. I would pick that over a fancy college name on my resume any day.

College is bullshit.

[Jeiku]

I'd say start at community college and then gradually move outwards and go to uni. Nowadays most of the credits you earn at a community college will count when you transfer over to a university. Community colleges are almost always cheaper, they're within local distance and they act as the mediator between living at home and moving out to start your own life. They also help knock out a lot of the basic bullshit core classes so then when you get to uni you can focus more on what you want to major in.
Also this is more towards Pete but, while I agree that there aren't many jobs out there even for those with a college education, I still wholeheartedly believe that it is worth it to have an education. I'd rather be poor, in debt and educated than poor, in debt and on top of that lacking in education.

[Master Miek]

There are a lot of factors to determine which type of school you want to attend. Distance, your budget, how much you want to be committed to your studies...it goes on and on.

What your date said about the credit transfer...that may be just his experience with his community college. They all are different, and different states probably have different policies regarding community colleges. The problem I have seen is transferring from a community college to a university, or from one community college to any other school for that matter. I have a friend who attended Edison (community college), and she wanted to leave that school pretty quickly because she did not feel comfortable there. However, when she tried to transfer, they messed up her transcript multiple times, and instead of leaving after one semester of school at Edison, she has spent three. Transferring can be tough stuff, just keep that in mind.

Also, unless you are aiming for an Associate's, you do not learn the same material in both a community college and a university. You start with general education classes in both, and that's it. Community college ends after two years; you cannot get a Bachelor's degree at community college. If you want a bachelor's, you pursue your studies at a university, where your studies become more rigorous toward your major. Also, if you start at a university, you can get your gen ed. done quickly. In my third semester, I am already starting to take upper level courses, and next semester will be mostly upper level courses, which is quicker than the two years of gen ed. at a community college. I also could have finished it a lot quicker if I wanted to. You could finish up gen ed. in one year if you really wanted to, and it probably wouldn't be too hard either. Colleges teach curriculum differently as well. Different universities offer completely different courses. I don't think they teach southwest Florida history at the University of Colorado.

I also agree with Jake that college is worth the price of admission. There's more to life than just getting a job and making money. While college can indeed help you with those goals, an education is also a very important thing in life. Pursuing an education really shows how devoted you are to being informed, and a well-informed citizen is something to be desired in the world today. If you really study financial aid and how to obtain scholarships, your financial situation in college will find significant relief. Anybody remember seeing a scholarship list before graduating high school or enrolling in college? Yeah, the list of scholarships went on for quite a few pages. College looks expensive at first, but if you do some studying, it will almost never cost the face price. Going to college also leaves you with four years to determine how you can jump into the job market. Get an internship somewhere, get your feet wet with your field of study...it will help your chances of employment even more.

A lot of people after high school wish to seek independence from their parents, and that's why many people go to colleges they would enjoy and obtain residency on campus. It's obviously nothing against their parents, relatives, or close friends...they just want to establish their own thing, and that is perfectly healthy. I know I don't want to stay with my parents for too much longer when there is a large realm of possibilities outside of the house. I've got a few relocations that have been in my mind for some time now. If you want to stay close to home for a bit, choose a community college or a close university. If you want to be independent and live partially on your own (you will 99% likely have a roommate, or several), choose a university.

Have you looked at scholarships at all? Want to live close at home or far away? If you give us a few details on that, we can better establish a resolution.

Also, I can't vote on the poll...one choice would be good for some, but another would be good for others. To me it's just not voteable right now with what I know.

[Ragaar31]

I would like to state that you don't need to go to college to have an education.

People that never went to/finished college:

Walt Disney: Having dropped out of high school at 16, Walt Disney’s career and accomplishments are astounding. The most influential animator, Disney holds the record for the most awards and nominations. Disney’s imagination included cartoons and theme parks. The Walt Disney Company now has annual revenue of $30 billion.

Richard Branson: Richard Branson is best known for his thrill seeking spirit and outrageous business tactics. He dropped out at the age of 16 and started his first successful business venture, Student Magazine. He is the owner of the Virgin brand and its 360 companies. His companies include Virgin Megastore and Virgin Atlantic Airway.

Michael Dell: With $1,000, dedication and desire, Michael Dell dropped out of college at age 19 to start PC’s Limited, later named Dell, Inc. Dell became the most profitable PC manufacturer in the world. In 1996, The Michael and Susan Dell Foundation offered a $50 million grant to The University of Texas at Austin to be used for children’s health and education in the city.

Henry Ford: At 16, Henry Ford left home to apprentice as a machinist. He later started Ford Motor Company to manufacture automobiles. Ford’s first major success, the Model T, allowed Ford to open a large factory and later start the assembly line production, revolutionalizing the auto-making industry.

Steve Jobs: After attending one semester of college, Steve Jobs worked for Atari before co-founding Apple Computers. Now without the “Computers” in their name, Apple includes innovative products such as the iPod, iTunes, and most recently the iPhone. Steve Jobs was also the CEO and co-founder of Pixar before it merged with Walt Disney.

Frank Lloyd Wright: Having never attended high school, Frank Lloyd Wright surpassed all odds when he became the most influential architect of the twentieth century. Wright designed more than 1,100 projects with about half actually being built. His designs have inspired numerous architects to look at the beauty around them and add to it.

Bill "Mother Fucking" Gates: Ranked as the world’s richest person from 1995-2006, Bill Gates was a college drop out. He started the largest computer software company, Microsoft Corporation. Gates and his wife are philanthropists, starting The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation with a focus on global health and learning.

You don't need to go to college for an education. You can teach yourself. You can learn something everyday from just reading. If you actively try to learn, it's potentially the same as a paid "education".

So fuck all 'yall.

[Ragaar31]

Here is an episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit. This episode is about college.

[Jeiku]

I'm pretty damn certain that these names you've mentioned are in an incredibly small and RARE minority as in the number of successful people with college educations grossly outnumbers these guys and the number of unsuccessful high school/college drop outs also vastly outnumbers the number of successful high school/college drop outs (as in these famous dudes). Case and point, unless you have a REVOLUTIONARY idea, a solid business plan, some money, and a megafuckton of luck, you sir are fucked if you drop out and expect to succeed.
Yeah there are people without formal/college educations who get along alright and yeah you can self teach yourself to a certain extent, I myself on the side of going to college am also touching up on my current knowledge and teaching myself newer things everyday but you're insane for attempting to legitimize that a few rare cases of people striking it big are reason enough not to have a decent formal education.

Also I don't think you paid much attention to that episode the first time I showed it to you. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the cost of education nor does it state that getting an education is bullshit. The episode was actually about how a number of colleges have diversity/"racial" quotas for staff/students, speech codes that limit freedom of speech and encourage political correctness and how much bullshit those concepts are. However "College" sort of rolls off the tongue better than "Diversity quotas, speech codes and political correctness in college"

You receive an F

[Master Miek]

Jake's comment is a pretty good rebuttal. I could expand on it a little more, but this thread isn't about why it is good to obtain a formal education. This thread is to help Lilly decide what she wants to do with her post-secondary education. While there may be disagreement among posters on this thread, Lilly expresses an interest in furthering fer formal education, and I am more than happy to help with that.

A few things I have gathered from a university setting:
1. There are a LOT of people at a university. You shouldn't have a problem finding friends.
2. If you get a dorm, try not to bring your car to school, if you have one. Parking can be a pain, and the campus is in walking distance.
3. You get a lot of discounted stuff at a university. Advertisers come onto campus with discounted products, and your university identification acts as a discount at many local businesses. Hey, anything to help relieve college costs, I suppose.
4. Professors are more reasonable than what most people think. I've never had a professor that I considered cold-hearted. Strict policies can happen, but few professors TRY to fail you.
5. Go to university dining areas sparingly if you can. The places to eat get old fast. ._.
6. University libraries are AWESOME. the FGCU library=4 floors. Nuff said.
7. Lots of neat concerts are usually at universities. Try and check them out!

I'll get more observations up later. Again though, give us a little more info on some preferences, and I'm sure a good resolution will result.

[Ragaar31]

The episode also shows people who never went to college and are successful, it also shows dumbasses that are in college. Perhaps YOU didn't pay attention to the episode.

For the record, I'm all for trade schools. Learning a trade is something that would be much harder to do yourself. But Jake, you are going to college for no reason. You are learning general knowledge things that don't necessarily lead down a career path.

I don't know why your fighting my opinion so hard. I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion, I agree college can be good, but for some it is useless. The amount of people who dropout of college is ridiculous. I was just stating that you don't NEED it. I wasn't saying "DON'T GO TO COLLEGE YOU FOOLS!!!".

And my points were valid to my argument. You need to correct my grade.

[Jeiku]

That might've been so but the main focus of the episode was what I mentioned above.

Now hold it, before you were straight up saying college is bullshit and that you can teach yourself without any college education. Yet now you're saying college can be good for some people and that trade schools can teach you things that otherwise would be difficult outside an academic setting. I prefer you get your facts straight the first time, Mr. Dimaria.

And if we're going on the personal level here, let me correct you by saying I hardly believe that a focus on Physics/Mathematics qualifies as going to college for "no reason". I'm taking these so called "general knowledge" classes because I HAVE to; they are the core required classes I must take/get out of the way first before I can go on to focus more on classes that pertain to my major (just as Mike is doing).

The reason I'm fighting your opinion is because it's an opinion, not a fact. People debate opinions all the time, I'm having fun with this myself as I hope you are too. And I never said you were telling us to not go to college but I think you may have implied it quite a bit by saying it's a waste of money and time.
I'll give you a D this time so you can have a DF

[Ragaar31]

My facts have been straight from the get-go. College is bullshit for a variety of reasons. I never faltered from this point, it's bullshit for the fact that the name of your college is more important than what you actually learned, and that the job market is so shitty that it makes college a hard pill to swallow. My original point was that you can get the same education at a community college that you can at a university. Take what you will out of what I have said, but this is the point I wanted to convey.

I give you a C- on the entire argument. Just below average.

[Hades.]

I really appreciate and agree to a certain degree with your opinion Pete, but I also think, like Jake, that having an education is highly important and people with education get considered more than people who do not. Those might be great examples of people who have accomplished great things in the world without one, but look now-a-days. Even in small-time jobs do they prefer hiring someone with an education than someone who doesn't. Or, at least, where I live currently.

And thanks to both Jake and Mike for both your insightful knowledge and personal opinions as well. Really, this is helping me a lot and I really appreciate the consideration and help. I just... it's not that I haven't done research nor anything, it's that... I just don't know. All I hear is the shit load of work people get from being in college and how much of a hassle and time-consuming factor it can be, but that's not what I want to hear. I guess I even barely know the system itself.

I swear I live under a rock when it comes to school. Mind you, I asked my counselor at high school to explain to me a million times how the credit system works and the credit requirements for my major (I understood it, thankfully) but I guess some things are still confusing to me... and I'd also like to know which one would be best without totally wasting my time. Even though it does all depend on what, where, why and other things like money, I'm pretty sure there's something better to choose either way.

One thing I am certain about, I do not want to be in college for many years. Four or five, I could handle. More than that... I'd probably end up changing my major the moment I know how many years of dedication it will take. Lol.

Yeah, I do remember the scholarship presentation. There was one for everything like having glasses, being left-handed, being Hispanic/Latino, bilingual or basically almost anything, but I have not checked them out yet or tried to fill them in, I had almost forgotten about them, thanks for reminding me.

As for the living ordeal, in my culture, we're really family-oriented people and we usually stick along with them or even live with them until we decide to get married and move on with that significant other and honestly, I'd be lying if I said I'm different. Living away from my mother was really hard even though I was living with my father. I had missed the understanding, easy communication, care and helpfulness a mother has to offer. Seeing everyone else getting their motherly attention and being cared about and being the center of hate while my dad just close his lips and does absolutely nothing about it to not cause problems was a really difficult experience for me and I've never missed her as much as I did when I finally moved back.

With that said, I guess that's my response for that one. I prefer to stay in with my mother for as long as I can knowing I can take her of her if something were to happen or keep an eye on her from people that want to harm her than stray away immediately.

Financially... I guess you're right that it would depend on that. Not to sound spoiled or anything, but when it comes to education, that's all our parents would want for us (or at least mine) so I'm pretty sure that if it came down to it, they'd pull around some strings and make magic to help me go to a university, yanno? As long as that's what I really want, but I don't really care. I just want a fairly decent education, not top quality or anything but not bullshitting through school either. I wanna learn what I'm suppose to learn for my major and be a good one.

Also, if you'd like to continue on with Jake's argument, you can add that into the convo. It's kind of interesting to see the different points of view. Educational vs non-educational future lifestyle. It all relates to what I'd like to know. A big part of wanting my education is to be able to snatch a good job if all the small ones were to ever go down. I think it's a pretty smart choice :/ I mean, think about it. You cannot live off of just two or three jobs. I mean, you could, but the amount of stress and work we can handle today could also just be really harmful to us. And while it gives us money to be able to pay some bills, have an apartment, maybe a cellphone, a car and get by with some food, what about other things that we need to keep us being able to do our jobs? Like medicine and such.

[Jeiku]

DON'T MIND ME! JUST GONNA IGNORE YOUR POST, LILLY AND CONTINUE MY DEBATE WITH PETE.
No I'm joking, lemme wrap this up and say that I do agree that college name might sometimes seem like it determines how well regarded you are, although I think the reason it might seem that way is because those big name colleges have a history of being well renowned and for having the best classes and teaching. They're not gonna take just some joe schmo professor, they'll take the best (that is in theory, all schools obviously have great teachers and they have horrible teachers) Not all teachers are the same, they have varying degrees of education, they have different teaching methods, all that jazz and not all colleges have the same classes so technically you can't get the same education whether you go to community college or an ivy league college. It all varies.
And while I also agree the job market is shitty, I'm not gonna let that stop me from going to school. You might find it not worth it which is cool but I see things differently. I think it IS worth it because who knows, the job market could pick up or it could get even worse! :D The thing is with me I'm not really doing it for some crazy high paying job (I know it's crazy), I just wanna learn and get a career in something I can enjoy for the rest of my life.
I do see how you could think the way you do but Imma take a different path and see where it gets me..maybe far maybe nowhere at all.
I'll give you a B over all

SPOILER: Click to show

B FOR BROS FOREVAH

As for Lilly, that whole wall of text was very insightful. I still stick by that you should probably start at community college as it's been said before; it's cheaper, it's more local and it's more easy going than university. You don't want to be overwhelmed so I think it'd be best if you too this path. But don't let it turn you off of university, if you chose that path I'm certain you could be successful.
Also the fact that you ARE hispanic and bilingual AND a woman..well god damn there are probably a MILLION scholarships out there for you..you don't have to look far ;D

[Ragaar31]

Lilly, I still recommend choosing the college that is closest to you. It sounds like that is what's most important to you. You can get a good education anywhere you go.

As for you Jake, the whole ivy league school thing has always pissed me of. Dumb shits can get into those schools just because they have a lot of money *cough*GeorgeBush*cough*, and that seems wrong. The whole college system seems to benefit people who already are well set with money in they're family, leaving the middle-class to struggle with loans and debt, just to get into a somewhat okay college. There is something really backwards about that. Anyway, I hope your college works out for you, it would be a damn shame to do all that schoolin' and still not be able to find a job. As for me, I'm going to continue trying to find a well paying job, I was so close to landing a job with the city last month, if I keep trying I know I can get something. Also

SPOILER: Click to show

I intend on going to college at some point, I just don't know when. Perhaps if finding a job continues to be incredibly hard/impossible

I also give you a B

SPOILER: Click to show

B for BEST BUDS EVAH!

[Master Miek]

Thanks for the information, Lilly. And with that information, I would have to agree with Jake and Pete's verdict of a close community college. If it is a cultural thing, and you enjoy the aspect of family, then stick close. Community college would likely be the best bet, but you should see how far the closest university is, see if you have any interest. That's another thing: study your colleges, One college can be more appealing than others. If you find one you really like, than go for it! Scholarships will also help big time, so I strongly recommend you look into that. Good luck with your post-secondary education! And to all those looking for help on further schooling, good luck as well.